That in the event of any dispute arising between a Deacons' Court or KirkSession and a schoolmaster, it shall be competent for the parties to agree to refer the matter in dispute to the judgment of the Presbytery, whose decision in every case shall be final. 6. That a schoolmaster shall not be discharged from office without his own consent, unless the concurrence of the Presbytery of the bounds be obtained. The General Assembly desire further to represent to those concerned that existing engagements, if all concerned be agreed, may be put upon the footing of the above regulations, by having fresh minutes drawn up, embodying the substance of these regulations. Committee instructed to continue their negotiations with the Committee of Privy Council, with the view of having the benefit of capitation grants extended to Scotland, and still to direct their attention to the change introduced by the said Committee of Privy Council, requiring industrial teaching of girls in all mixed schools."

Professor GIBSON said it would be within the knowledge of the House that a certain constitution of the schools had been proposed, he supposed by the Education Committee, and sent down to Presbyteries for their approval, and passed by a large majority,-at any rate by a majority of Presbyteries, but no action was taken in regard to the matter of passing it into a standing law. He therefore wished to know, before coming to any finding on the recommended regulations relating to the admission of schoolmasters to office, whether these regulations were only recommended as interim arrangements till the Presbyteries should have time to consider them, or whether they were to be reported as permanent; because the subject to which it related was of such importance as to demand time for distinct consideration, if they were not temporary.

Mr WILSON Said he would, in answer to the question, simply read an extract from the Report :-"The Committee are not prepared to advise the adoption of any legislative measures by the Church. They do not think the present a suitable time for proposing any comprehensive constitution for the schools of this Church, of which constitution regulations anent the election and dismission of teachers would naturally form a part. And deferring to what seemed to be the opinion of last Assembly, that the Church should not assume to itself jurisdiction in the matter of engagements entered into by local parties with teachers, the Committee submit the following rules, not with the view of their being passed into laws of the Church, but in order that, if approved of by the Assembly, they may be recommended as equitable terms of agreement, to be introduced hereafter by the local parties into their minutes of appointment, and to be held by the teachers as giving them their right to office."

Mr JOHNSTON, Schoolmaster, Dunfermline, said it would be a disappointment to the teachers to find that they were to be left in the hands of the Deacons' Courts, after they had been led to believe that they were to be under the protection of the Presbytery. A number of teachers had entered into agreements with the Deacons' Courts, and that was so far satisfactory; but there was a large number, and he was amongst that number, who had not done so; and leaving the matter so unsettled was very unsatisfactory

to that class.

Mr A. M. DUNLOP, M.P., said-Some of the teachers might feel disappointed at this, but the Church could not remedy it. In all cases where the teachers had entered upon their situations under a contract expressly stipulating that the judgment of the Presbytery was necessary before they

He

could be dismissed from office, that stipulation would be enforced; but, on the other hand, if they had not done that-if, on the faith of something being done which was not done, without saying what that something was, the civil courts might consider whether what was contended for was implied or not; but if it was neither expressed nor implied, the Church could not alter contracts which had been already made, by passing any law on the subject, whatever she might do in the case of future engagements. As to legislation on this subject, he owned that he regarded the course adopted by the Education Committee as a very wise one. did not believe that the Church was prepared to legislate upon it, or, at all events, it would require a good deal of consideration; and in the meantime the suggestions made by the Committee on this matter were, in his opinion, very judicious, and likely to be beneficial. There was one point in the Report which was, he thought, a little indefinite. He would have liked if they had more definitely pointed out on what grounds Presbyteries were expected to give or withhold their concurrence in the dismissal of teachers. If they were to tie the hands of Deacons' Courts to this extent that they could not dismiss a teacher, however inefficient he might be for the purposes for which he had been appointed, until the Presbytery of the bounds could say, as in the case of parochial teachers under the present law, that he had committed some fault warranting something like deposition, that would, he thought, be very disastrous. This had been found to be most injurious to the parochial schools, and he thought it would be most injurious to the Free Church schools. He, however, supposed that what the Committee meant was, that Presbyteries were expected to give their judgment as to the fair and honest exercise of discretion on the part of Kirk-Sessions, and having a due regard to the interests of the schoolmaster and the interests of the school; and in this view he thought the arrangement proposed in the Report was one that would be highly beneficial to all parties. He had no doubt that the teachers would find that they would not in such circumstances be really exposed to any injustice. The Deacons' Courts knew that the interests of their schools depended on their getting the best teachers, and they would never get good teachers if they were found to act harshly or unjustly; and this consideration, and the check to which they would be subject by the interposition of the opinion of the Presbytery, would, he thought, perfectly secure that justice would be done them. Mr Dunlop then, referring generally to the Committee's Report, said he had never been able to comprehend the want of interest on the part of their congregations in supporting their Education Fund. It was to him perfectly incomprehensible, and it was very universal. The great apathy which prevailed, and the difficulty experienced in getting people to subscribe money for the purpose of supporting their schools, was to him very strange in a country like Scotland, where the value of education was generally understood and appreciated. At one time he hoped that they might have got a large fund for their schools; but in this, he regretted to say, he had been disappointed; and now he did not know what efforts they could put forth to secure this object. In regard to the correspondence with the Committee of Privy Council, he sympathised a good deal with the latter, not in introducing English notions into Scotland, but in impressing upon us the value of female industrial training. He thought the value of industrial training, and especially female industrial training, could not be over-estimated, when

they had a regard to the importance of comfortable and happy homes being provided by females for their husbands and brothers, who sometimes, for want of these, were perhaps driven to seek enjoyment in the public-house. Feeling the desirableness of this, and of the female part of the population being able to provide well-cooked meals and keep a clean and pleasant dwelling for their husbands and brothers, he attached the highest importance to female industrial training. He thought the training given in their schools was very useful; and agreed very much with the Privy Council in the advantage of separating, not absolutely, but far more than had been done, boys and girls in their education. If boys and girls were never separated, but were allowed to be educated together, and to go through the same system and play-grounds, and if the latter had not the benefit of separate training by a mistress, in addition to what might very beneficially be taught by the master, important benefits would be lost; and therefore he greatly desired to see introduced a large mixture of female teaching. If the Committee were resisting this altogether, he would regret it; but he felt sure that they would not take up that position, but would only be anxious to see that nothing was done in this direction by the Privy Council Committee too hurriedly or rashly.

Mr WILSON said what the Committee said was-"The Committee are inclined, on the whole, to acquiesce in what the Government now propose; being fully alive to the importance of the object sought, and being persuaded that where the managers of schools are evidently doing their utmost to provide instruction in female branches of education in the best manner practicable in their circumstances, their Lordships will be disposed to make all reasonable allowances for the deficiencies of a transition state, and to give time for the safe and satisfactory introduction of a more thorough system of training in the department indicated."

Mr DUNLOP said that he was perfectly satisfied with the statement made. As to the reflection which had, it appeared, been cast upon their Normal Seminaries, he thought there was no foundation for it. He would like to know what were the results of Normal School teaching in England during the last ten years, as to the proportion of teachers trained there being still engaged in teaching. He thought a percentage of 51 after ten years, and after three years of 81 of those trained in their own schools, who were still carrying out the object for which they were trained, was a large one, and he was astonished at it. The nation supported at a great expense an agricultural school in Ireland, for training young men in agricultural pursuits. The percentage of young men trained there, and who were carrying out the object for which they were trained, he could not exactly remember, but it was perfectly contemptible. Their percentage of 51 for the last ten years, and 81 for last three years, was certainly very large, and one shewing that there was no real ground for complaint at all. He still more regretted to find that any Scotch ladies should have given any such opinion as they had done in the petition read by Mr Wilson. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He got a copy of the paper to see if their names were appended to it; but he was rather well pleased to find that they were not given; and all he would say was, that he hoped they would get a little better information, and not repeat anything which, he was satisfied, was really incorrect, and contrary to the fact, and which went in the face of the immense advantages which had been derived from these Normal Schools. (Applause.) They had had in the part of the country with which he was connected a female teacher

taken from one of their Normal Schools-from Glasgow, he thought-and nothing could be more admirable than the manner in which the teaching was carried on, and the influence exercised by it over the children, and, in fact, over the whole of that small district. He had not the least doubt that the teaching in their Normal Schools, and the training of female teachers in these schools in Scotland, was most admirable, and, as he said, he thought the nation was amply repaid by the good which had been already derived through means of them. (Applause.) He trusted, therefore, that they should require to say no more as to reflections cast upon them, either from their own ladies, or from the Privy Council. In regard to the capitation grants, he would say, that if they were to be continued elsewhere, he thought they in Scotland should at least have their share. (Hear, hear.) At the same time, it was his opinion that there had been abuses connected with these capitation grants; and, therefore, he was well pleased that the system was not extended to us till some new regulations were to be adopted to prevent these abuses. On the whole, they had every reason to be satisfied with the Report of the Education Committee, with the exception of the state of the contributions to the fund.

Professor GIBSON expressed not only his cordial concurrence with the recommendations of the Report in regard to something more being done in support of this scheme, but also thought that immediate steps should be taken in some way or other to secure that congregations should do their duty better. It was really very sad that, in regard to a scheme so important at all times, which was the means of doing such a mighty work throughout portions of the country where very little could be done otherwise, so large a number of congregations should be doing nothing in behalf of it. It was a thing that ought really, if possible, to be put an end to, if they had it in their power; and further, they should go a little further, and recommend strongly to those congregations who were doing something for it to increase their liberality. They knew that there were portions of the country very much dependent on this scheme altogether for improved secular education, and very much dependent on it for any right religious education in the school; and, considering this, it was really very sad to find that a larger measure of support was not given to it. He, however, trusted that every effort would be made towards this end. He was a friend to a system of national education established on a right footing, and in which the religious element was maintained, though it was extremely problematical, to say the least, in the present state of matters, when they would obtain such a system; and hence, he felt it to be of extreme importance that they should maintain their own schools in efficiency; and he might perhaps use a stronger phrase, and say, that it would be something like extreme unfaithfulness to the religious upbringing of the youth of their congregations, and to certain districts and localities in their own country, if they allowed their own schools, in these circumstances, to fall into anything like a state of inefficiency and decrepitude. (Hear, hear.)

Mr TRAIL strongly concurred with Professor Gibson, and thought that this scheme had never got justice done to it by the congregations. When he considered that, with the transcendent genius and the overpowering energy of Dr Candlish (applause) the Convener, who had thrown his whole soul into the scheme, it was yet in but a feeble state, he had often

asked himself what would have been its fate, but rapid decay and a premature death, if it had had another Convener.. He felt that there was a wide misconception, as well as apathy, with regard to this scheme. He thoroughly sympathised with those who wished to see a proper national system of education; and he would just ask how was this most likely to be secured, but by the efficient carrying out of their own scheme? Suppose they let their own scheme go down, they would lose the vantageground which they at present occupied for demanding a proper kind of national system-(hear, hear)—while, by thoroughly working it into a still more efficient state, they would be able to go on until they were presented with such a national system as they could really consistently and conscientiously adopt. Looking, therefore, to their present duty, and their prospects as a nation in an educational point of view, he got more and more impressed with the imperative duty lying on them to do far more for their schools. He thought the Committee had shewn admirable judgment in not recommending immediate legislation with regard to the question of the tenure of office by the teachers. It was a question which was surrounded with difficulty on every side. While he said this, he must also say that he did not regard the teacher's present tenure of office as sufficiently secure. He felt very strongly that if educated men were dismissable by Deacons' Courts summarily and simpliciter without reasons assigned, the time might not be far distant when they would have a lower grade of applicants as candidates for their schools. But, on the other hand, they must remember that their teachers were supported by means contributed by the congregations, and that the Deacons' Courts were the dispensers of these moneys; and they must therefore beware of anything like what might be regarded as coercive legislation. They must bear in mind that the Deacons' Courts were not under any obligation to pay teachers, or were likely to do so, unless the legislation was such that they had some guarantee that the teachers who were to be continued and paid by the moneys of the congregations were really efficiently doing their work; for, however excellent might be the men, however well educated, and however well they might teach in other places, if they were not succeeding in their particular localities or congregations, it would be monstrous to say that the Deacons' Courts were to be held pledged to go on from year to year in paying them, while they were not doing the work for which they were appointed. He therefore thought that the Committee had acted well, and had indicated the kindly spirit which the Church, he was sure, entertained towards their teachers; and he had this faith in the Deacons' Courts that they would be ready to enter into engagements with teachers which would, in the meantime at least, throw over them, if not a sufficient, at least a broader shield than heretofore.

(Hear, hear.)

The motion was then agreed to.

SABBATH SCHOOLS.

Mr W. DICKSON, on the part of the Committee on Sabbath Schools, said that they had no formal Report to give in, as, by an unfortunate oversight, the usual schedules sent down to congregations had only this year been sent to those congregations which had week-day schools in connexion with the returned. In these circumstances, they thought it better not to make any